Women leaders in the Satanist community | Forum

I think if it happens it will happen naturally... When women want to - they will! 

Some people say they want to see more women in politics or in the armed forces. Granted, it is harder for women to gain respect in such positions, but it is also true that there are more men in politics because there simply aren't as many of us as qualified for the positions. Women have only been allowed to vote for about a hundred years and politics is as old as history - we're still catching up. 

Perhaps many people, including women, are still not comfortable with women in different leadership roles. 

I am not that familiar with the unofficial ranking in Satanism. Theoretically, gender shouldn't come into it. But Satanists are still people and many are still somewhat influenced by society/upbringing/culture etc - change takes time. 

Ask yourself... If you walked into a Satanist's gathering and it was run by a woman, what would your first reaction be? Surprise? And then... Cool! I will offer my support... I wonder if she needs help? Does she know what she's doing? What are her qualifications, exactly? On some level the general public still doesn't trust a woman to be able to handle certain roles. The trust is still being earned.

But rest assured that when a woman wants to take on such a role - she will! And she will shine! (And she will appreciate the help you offered.)

I'm a sexist to a certain extent.   I don't believe that just because people wish it to be so,  women can do EVERYTHING a man can do.  I feel very strong about this when it comes to the military.

I know some people will have a shit fit over this,  but personally,  while I was in the army, I hated taking orders for women.  Not because of their gender,  but because I knew that they couldn't do everything that I could do,  yet they still got to give me orders. Then again,  I also hated taking orders from pretty much most people.

Aside from that,  I don't believe that there are, or will be,  and leaders in Satanism.  Leadership in Satanism is an oxymoron.  With that said,  if I like someone's personality,  or respect their agenda,  I will support them as much as I can,  regardless of their gender,   but they will never "Lead," me.

Also, although as I said, I am a sexist to a certain extent,  I do not have issues with smart women in power.   I don't claim to be smarter then many women, when it comes to being cunning,  and logical,  so I can definitely see myself supporting a woman and feeling allied with her,  if I felt she was better then me in regards to her position.

To answer the original question, even though I cant see recognizing anyone as a Satanic "Leader,"   I can see myself supporting the views, actions, and desires of anyone who I feel deserves it,  and it doesn't matter if they're male or female.   BUT, they have to earn respect,  and not get it based on their gender,  sexual orientation, race, or nationality. IT MUST BE EARNED.

The reason we have so many unqualified people in powerful positions today, is not because there aren't better and more qualified people out there,  but because too many people "wanted," or "wished," to see a certain type of person in a position of power,  instead of wanting someone who was the most qualified.

"Ask yourself... If you walked into a Satanist's gathering and it was run by a woman, what would your first reaction be? Surprise? And then... Cool! I will offer my support... I wonder if she needs help? Does she know what she's doing? What are her qualifications, exactly? On some level the general public still doesn't trust a woman to be able to handle certain roles. The trust is still being earned."

I wouldn't have an issue with that at all,  but it would take time to get to know what she is all about.   

I would go as far as to say,  that if she was a real "Satanic Witch,"  and was a master of her craft, she could probably have me wrapped around her little finger in no time :)

How do you compare satanism to the damned Army? There's no correlation, whatsoever. And, the fact that you hacve identified, as being sexist violates principles within the path itself.

Your statement is like someone saying: I'm racist but only to an extent. Ridiculous.

" as being sexist violates principles within the path itself."

Which principles am I violating?   I would think it would be more of a violation of Satanic principles if I pretended to be something I wasn't, or feared to express an opinion because of some imaginary violation.

I wasn't trying to say that Satanism was like the military in anyway,  but was attempting to express my distaste for unqualified leaders.   Point being there are no leaders in Satanism.    How is anyone going to lead someone on a path,  when it is a path of individualism?

Even  those who might have a sincere desire to assist someone in finding their own individual way,  can at the most be a guide for that persons self discovery,  just like a Psychologist guides a person to where they need to be mentally,  to find and face their inner truth.   In no way does that make a psychologist any kind of leader,  nor their patient a follower.

In my time with Satanism,  the only ones who might be considered as "leaders," are those who lead by example;  but one doesn't need Satanism  for that,  because there are very few if any genuine Self Actualized people in the Satanic community.   There are just as few percentage wise outside of Satanism, but the number of people in the outside community are much greater,  which makes the Self Actualized ones more in number, due to the large number of people in the human pool.

I agree with most of that Frater... Just replace the word "weakest" and it's all good. 

@Rev Mel and Asmedious. I was the one that first mentioned the armed forces but it was not to compare to Satanism. It was an example of one of the areas where women struggle to infiltrate. 

Maybe physically weaker. Maybe emotionally more vulnerable... But not mentally weaker or spiritually weaker. Women have more submissive natures but submissive does not equal inferior. 

Trust me, I've met some pretty weak men in my time... Weak of character that is. I'm submissive but I would say I'm a hundred times stronger than such men - they are not even in my league when it comes to strength.

There are many different types of weak. 

@Frater. I'm very primal and a proud sexist bitch - I think men and women are very different and I like it that way. I just don't think Air and Fire = strength while earth and water = weakness. Each may be more prone to particular strengths and weakness but one is not weaker or stronger than the other as a whole. The Yin Yang symbol does not have a small side or a faded side or an insignificant side. Both are to be honoured for their specific strengths.

In my personal discussions with Anton Lavey, Satanism treats ALL genders as equals. satanism does NOT measure someone by capabilities. ALL things are a matter of intent. There aere certain physical things I cannot do. Does that make me unequal in comparison with those who can? You cannot with intellectual honesty compare Satanism and your military experience. Satanism is not related to the military, so your comparison is irrelevant, immaterials and driven by personal bias. I know women who could beat you 1/2 to death. Would that make you as a man to be inferior? The same arguments you used, were argued against blacks, women, gays, and others. You are no better than Christianity, because there's a hierarchy system you adhere to. Satanism has NONE of that. Do us a fravour. Leave the path and just be a Christian. You're more suited for it. I know of NO Satanist woman, with a brain in her head who'd have anything to do with you. Unless she's mentally defective. YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN.

@Frater. Please tell me that you are not saying that you think of women as being weak and unintelligent...

Okay, I understand what you are saying. We probably just have different terminologies. 

When I think of weakness I envision people who don't own their shit, or that lack the courage of their convictions, or compulsively lie to themselves and purposely live in ignorance, or that blame others for everything. And obviously these things don't favour a specific sex.

Re: RevMel.

If a woman could beat me half to death,  then yes, I would be her inferior in physical strength.   If she was more intelligent and cunning then me as well,  and wished to enslave me,  I would likely end up being her slave because I would have no other choice at that point.  So yes, I would be inferior to her.   How could I be her equal?

I am assuming your response was to me when you said,  that I adhere to a Hierarchy system,  and that is more on-par with Christianity.   

I totally disagree with that.   The entire world of reality runs on a Hierarchy system.   The rule of nature is survival of the fittest,  and the weak, the docile survive only through the goodwill of the stronger.

One would have to be delusional to believe that someone who is incapable of supporting themselves,  living off of handouts and scraps,  is equal to someone who is self sufficient,  and productive.

You state that when it comes to Hierarchy and Satanism,  "Satanism has non of that." 

Yet, your original point is that you would like to see more women in the for front of Satanism.   If there is no hierarchy in Satanism, then what difference does it make who is in the for-front?   If everyone is equal,  then why have a title of "Rev.?"  The definition of Reverend is someone to be respected right?  If everyone is on the same level in Satanism then how can one assume a title that is above the general populace?

You state,  "Satanism does not measure someone by capabilities?"

Then what does it measure a person by?  Who can give the most fuzzy hugs?

Does not a person have to possess certain mental capabilities to even understand a concept such as Satanism or anything else?

Wouldn't you consider a person who embraces Satanism further up on the Hierarchy of humanity,  then a person who worships a stone?

  "To the East and to the West I beckon.  To the North and to the South I show a sign proclaiming:  Death to the weakling, wealth to the strong."

That is a quote from the first paragraph of The Satanic Bible.  How does that NOT measure someone by capabilities?

Rev. Mel I agree that there are more than enough varying views from the male Satanic practitioners so that experience I tend to not seek out so much as there is no shortage from that vantage point. Personally as a woman I tend to seek out the experiences, interests , practices and work (writing, art, etc) of other Satanic women. Even if they practice a different type of Satanism than me , I still find the why and how interesting and how they navigate and integrate their path in their daily life, how this goes against or with the lifescript, etc. This very topic is the reason I joined the Women's group here.

sme deious it's a matter of intent. you are a misogynistic christian pig. Consider yourself ignoreed forever.

margarte Poole you are wise anhd intelligent.

Quote from RevMel sme deious it's a matter of intent. you are a misogynistic christian pig. Consider yourself ignoreed forever.

"Matter of intent,"  is subjective,  and anyone can claim anything in regards to it.   

Misogynistic:  Is someone who hates and mistrusts women.   I don't hate any women that I can think of.  I'm in good terms with many of my ex girlfriends whom I still keep in touch with, and harbor absolutely no negative feelings to those that I no longer keep in touch with.  Two of my favorite supervisors from previous jobs were women whom I respect and trusted completely,  and have a great amount of respect for them.  They earned that trust and respect through several years of working with them, and I had no qualms about expressing those feelings in front of them or to my coworkers.  Furthermore,  if during office chit chat,  anyone would say anything negative, that was untrue,  behind their back, instead of jumping on the band wagon just to be part of the group,  I would instead stick up for them with a counter argument based on provable facts in regards to their competence, because I'm extremely loyal and protective of those who treat me right without regard to what gender they might be.

As for being a "Christian."   I don't qualify,  since I do not recognize Jesus as my personal savior,  nor a prophet.   I also don't believe in turning the other cheek,  loving my enemies,  or that the rich are evil.   

A "pig?"  There may be some truth to that.   I do love gluttony,  dirty sex, foul language,  and probably some other pig-ish delights.  Score one for the "Rev," on that point.

On being ignored forever.   Could be true,  but forever is a very long time. :)

There is no weaker sex. Men may be genetically stronger physically but we also are more easily manipulated emotionally by women. Neither are weak. A strong woman will only make a man stronger. A weak woman will make a man weaker. A weak man is useless to a woman and vice versa. We are human and we need both sexes to thrive. We may have differences but neither one is weaker than the other beyond an individual basis. 

I think FraterLuciferi is using the term weak in a different context to what we are reading it. It might be a language thing. 

Quote from FraterLuciferi I'm not sure that women will feel attracted to men who are stupider than themselves if they shows great will and muscles etc...

...women have a remarkably high threshold of tolerance to stupidity if the package includes a fat-a$$ bank account , just say'n.