@frater
True. So was that your point? The stupid reveal themselves?
But we still have the covert enemies.
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How do you define 'stupidity?' | Forum
Member ShadowLover
Dec 11 '15
Impulsiveness... Really? Damn!
I wouldn't say I am am impulsive person but a really enjoy spontaneity and random acts of impulsiveness. But then, it is represented by the Fool in the Tarot...
Sometimes I think it it is good to take a risk and in fact believe opportunities can sometimes be missed if you don't. There is always a risk factor but risk can be exciting and spontaneity can lead to some of life's greatest adventures and you can be blessed with untold secrets that you may never have uncovered. I love playing in Pandora's Box - admittedly I've been bitten on occasion but what I gained from the bite was well worth it. What's this button for?
It probably depends what you are impulsive with. Like I rarely shop beyond my budget. But when I was young I would jump into strange cars etc - I think it is important to always trust your instincts.
I wouldn't say I am am impulsive person but a really enjoy spontaneity and random acts of impulsiveness. But then, it is represented by the Fool in the Tarot...
Sometimes I think it it is good to take a risk and in fact believe opportunities can sometimes be missed if you don't. There is always a risk factor but risk can be exciting and spontaneity can lead to some of life's greatest adventures and you can be blessed with untold secrets that you may never have uncovered. I love playing in Pandora's Box - admittedly I've been bitten on occasion but what I gained from the bite was well worth it. What's this button for?
It probably depends what you are impulsive with. Like I rarely shop beyond my budget. But when I was young I would jump into strange cars etc - I think it is important to always trust your instincts.
Padowan
Dec 11 '15
@Shadowlover
Are you sure spontaneity and impulsiveness are the same thing? There is definitely value in getting burned occasionally, as long as you aren't jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.
My 'instincts' were stunted as a child. I still have them but I was conditioned to ignore them. I have not so long ago regained my expression of anger; from being exposed to Satanism. The effects have been profound.
How would you identify stupidity?
Are you sure spontaneity and impulsiveness are the same thing? There is definitely value in getting burned occasionally, as long as you aren't jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.
My 'instincts' were stunted as a child. I still have them but I was conditioned to ignore them. I have not so long ago regained my expression of anger; from being exposed to Satanism. The effects have been profound.
How would you identify stupidity?
nith
Dec 11 '15
@Padawan
It is not so much a trait but there are observable markers that can be tracked. Unlike traits these have much more in common with finger prints as there are often subjective and personal to an individual (or sometimes an individual that follows group thinking).
Most people have a reactionary response to a thing, topic, form of questioning, or an action. For this conversation I will refer to this act of reactionary response as “the soft spot” as it is often a weak or overly emotional area.
In general they may be able to keep their demeanour and function as a logical, thinking person. One or two hits to this emotional soft spot and they become less rational or fall back on pre-programmed replies or action.
Everyone will have a soft spot but some at least acknowledge it's existence and keep some form of control over it so as not to advertise a vulnerable area. Knowing someone's soft spot is often a key to not only controlling something about them in that instance but also learning other soft spots.
I guess the key phrase is do they act or do they react as it is the reaction that is often void of any logic or prior thought.
There is also the idea of the side tracked topic to catch people off guard. Normally I don't make assumptions on gender or philosophies but Frater's bait line on enemies got my full attention and I typed “he” in the place of “they. This was a slip up on my behalf so his bait still caught me but not in the way I thought.
Padowan
Dec 11 '15
@nith
I'm not so sure you are speaking of stupidity anymore.
It sounds to me as though you see referring to trigger points; what makes a person act irrationally and emotionally.
If stupidity is to be avoided how can you identify the characteristics of the stupid to avoid?
To be stupid is to ACT stupid, or be stupid in thought. You cannot avoid what you do not recognize.
Lavey set the stage:
"Stupidity
The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid."
So what is stupid?
1. Acceptance without verification.
2. ??
I'm not so sure you are speaking of stupidity anymore.
It sounds to me as though you see referring to trigger points; what makes a person act irrationally and emotionally.
If stupidity is to be avoided how can you identify the characteristics of the stupid to avoid?
To be stupid is to ACT stupid, or be stupid in thought. You cannot avoid what you do not recognize.
Lavey set the stage:
"Stupidity
The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid."
So what is stupid?
1. Acceptance without verification.
2. ??
nith
Dec 11 '15
@Padowan
I guess in layman's terms an intelligent person falling for the same thing over and over is stupidity at it's finest. If someone is able to get you to fall for something by the use of the mentioned trigger points over and over again, it would be a bad thing not to address these points.
2, Agreeing to something just to gain acceptance.
3, Once bitten twice shy, 10+ times bitten and your being stupid.
Will leave room for others to add more.
Member ShadowLover
Dec 11 '15
@Padowan. No, spontaneity and impulsiveness aren't exactly the same thing - I feel impulsiveness involves a somewhat irrational compulsion. It is probably only in our minds that the line between the two becomes blurry - when we are caught up in emotion or trying to justify the compulsion to ourselves.
I don't feel like I am a compulsive person, largely... But in hindsight have been guilty of impulsiveness on the odd occasion.
I would be interested to know how your instincts were stunted or what this even feels like. I feel like mine are very strong, and in fact have used them endlessly and believe with some of the situations I have put myself in I would be dead now if my instincts were ever off.
I too only allowed myself to feel angry about 1oyears ago when I began coughing up hairballs from an event which happened 25yrs earlier. The human mind is fascinating how it processes things.
I thought about this. I actually have trouble defining stupidity... But I like what you said about jumping from the frying pan into the fat. Perhaps cutting of one's nose to spite one's face might be in there too.
When I think these things out loud (including your list) they all seem to involve some degree of blatantly denying the facts and expecting a different outcome to what is logically probable.
I don't feel like I am a compulsive person, largely... But in hindsight have been guilty of impulsiveness on the odd occasion.
I would be interested to know how your instincts were stunted or what this even feels like. I feel like mine are very strong, and in fact have used them endlessly and believe with some of the situations I have put myself in I would be dead now if my instincts were ever off.
I too only allowed myself to feel angry about 1oyears ago when I began coughing up hairballs from an event which happened 25yrs earlier. The human mind is fascinating how it processes things.
I thought about this. I actually have trouble defining stupidity... But I like what you said about jumping from the frying pan into the fat. Perhaps cutting of one's nose to spite one's face might be in there too.
When I think these things out loud (including your list) they all seem to involve some degree of blatantly denying the facts and expecting a different outcome to what is logically probable.
Padowan
Dec 11 '15
@Shadowlover
"to involve some degree of blatantly denying the facts and expecting a different outcome to what is logically probable"
I think this might be self deceit, or stupid, or both.
" I like what you said about jumping from the frying pan into the fat"
Interesting typo. Fat will work too. :)
I'll get back to you on the instinct question.
Member ShadowLover
Dec 11 '15
Lol! Yes I see my typo... Or brain flip.
I would say pulling the wool over your own eyes and expecting that the world is different because you are not looking at it is stupid.
I used to tell people to get their grubby paw prints off my rose-coloured glasses. I believe it is healthy to wear rose-coloured glasses so long as you are aware you are wearing them. This can be a survival technique, and give you a reprieve from a bad situation in order to recharge or raise your endorphin level, or it can be a part of visualising positive change.
But there is a difference between wearing the glasses and taking action to make your world rosy, and simply pulling the wool over your eyes and expecting that the world on the other side is different to what it is, and then lying to yourself about having pulled it over your eyes in the first place.
I would say pulling the wool over your own eyes and expecting that the world is different because you are not looking at it is stupid.
I used to tell people to get their grubby paw prints off my rose-coloured glasses. I believe it is healthy to wear rose-coloured glasses so long as you are aware you are wearing them. This can be a survival technique, and give you a reprieve from a bad situation in order to recharge or raise your endorphin level, or it can be a part of visualising positive change.
But there is a difference between wearing the glasses and taking action to make your world rosy, and simply pulling the wool over your eyes and expecting that the world on the other side is different to what it is, and then lying to yourself about having pulled it over your eyes in the first place.
The Forum post is edited by ShadowLover Dec 11 '15
Padowan
Dec 12 '15
@Frater
"Stupid people reveals themselves through threatening, personal attacks and insult"
You couldn't have more accurately described the stupidest person I know in my life. I will add that to my list of identifiers.
If you tell someone they are stupid you will more often than not get a defensive reaction. It is rare for someone to admit they are or have been stupid. People will always consider being called stupid an insult.
I treat people I consider stupid, and harmfully so, in a different manner than directly labeling them. I get them to show it.
I let them hang themselves.
If they are harmless idiots they just don't become part of my life.
I appreciate your clarification of your question.
Padowan
Dec 12 '15
@Shadowlover
"I would be interested to know how your instincts were stunted or what this even feels like. I feel like mine are very strong, and in fact have used them endlessly and believe with some of the situations I have put myself in I would be dead now if my instincts were ever off."
I was conditioned to withhold emotion and I withdrew into myself. I was denied my right to be angry or protect my boundaries. I was not allowed boundaries. I didn't know it but that set me up to be abused emotionally years after. I was ignorant then. I didn't know how to follow through on my anger and protect myself. I repressed it.
Satanism gave me freedom to express anger and hate. I saw the logic. The day I finally trusted my anger and instincts was the day I began protecting myself and living my life for myself. I never knew there would be such a vengeance and hatred against me for taking back my own life from others that wanted to control me. For every hateful threat I receive they can't change the fact my life has never been better and my instincts are not ignored.
How to erode instincts: http://sociopathlife.com/seductionstage-2/gaslighting/
Member Corvus Corax
Dec 12 '15
Stupidity is in the eye of the beholder...
To what degree is stupidity entirely subjective? There will always be arguments both for and against the existence of traits, however you define them. More problematic is the difficulty in establishing concrete, objective claims without essentially revealing assumptions founded on subjective values holdings.
Padowan
Dec 12 '15
@Corvus
Did you make a point?
Generalizations and vague allusions really don't count as a reply.
And I am unsure where you brought in 'subjective' from. Please clarify a solid point or position.
Intelligence has been defined.
Intelligence has distinct traits. There have been entire studies on the subject of intelligence.
No one considers investigating the extent of stupidity and finding ways to identify and extinguish it.
If I want to be smarter I take actions that increase my skill in intelligence.
If i don't want to be stupid I identify what actions and behaviors to avoid.
Did you make a point?
Generalizations and vague allusions really don't count as a reply.
And I am unsure where you brought in 'subjective' from. Please clarify a solid point or position.
Intelligence has been defined.
Intelligence has distinct traits. There have been entire studies on the subject of intelligence.
No one considers investigating the extent of stupidity and finding ways to identify and extinguish it.
If I want to be smarter I take actions that increase my skill in intelligence.
If i don't want to be stupid I identify what actions and behaviors to avoid.
Hartnell
Dec 12 '15
@Padowan; He did make a solid point. But at a meta level from the level you asked the qiestion from. Your response is akin to atheists and theists demanding that I choose from the set of labels that they understand to define myself, for myself.
Translation of his post: How someone defines stupidity only reveals something about the person who wrote the definition.
Member Corvus Corax
Dec 12 '15
@ Hartnell: Thank you for rephrasing, I would concur.
@ Padowan: If I made a point is entirely up to you to decide. :)
Padowan
Dec 12 '15
@Hartnell and Corvus<br />
Please show me which sentences translate into your point Hartnell.
And if his generalizations and vagueness requires translation how concise and clear could his point have been?
Also, Hartnell, why are you answering for him?
Please show me which sentences translate into your point Hartnell.
And if his generalizations and vagueness requires translation how concise and clear could his point have been?
Also, Hartnell, why are you answering for him?
The Forum post is edited by Padowan Dec 12 '15
Padowan
Dec 12 '15
@ Corvus & Hartnell
"To what degree is stupidity entirely subjective?
Did you mean subjective or objective? Who brought up subjectivity? Are you going to answer this question?
"There will always be arguments both for and against the existence of traits, however you define them."
There are always arguments for every definition. I'm not arguing. I'm identifying. If I want to identify an ape's behavior I don't use subjectivity. I observe. I record. I look for patterns. This is an objective process I am undertaking. You have made assumptions based on your own interpretation of what I'm asking.
"More problematic is the difficulty in establishing concrete, objective claims without essentially revealing assumptions founded on subjective values holdings."
No kidding.
I'm not making claims. I'm brainstorming ways to identify stupidity to avoid it.
Everything we do is based on subjective values and biased assumptions. Why does it matter?
"To what degree is stupidity entirely subjective?
Did you mean subjective or objective? Who brought up subjectivity? Are you going to answer this question?
"There will always be arguments both for and against the existence of traits, however you define them."
There are always arguments for every definition. I'm not arguing. I'm identifying. If I want to identify an ape's behavior I don't use subjectivity. I observe. I record. I look for patterns. This is an objective process I am undertaking. You have made assumptions based on your own interpretation of what I'm asking.
"More problematic is the difficulty in establishing concrete, objective claims without essentially revealing assumptions founded on subjective values holdings."
No kidding.
I'm not making claims. I'm brainstorming ways to identify stupidity to avoid it.
Everything we do is based on subjective values and biased assumptions. Why does it matter?
The Forum post is edited by Padowan Dec 12 '15
Padowan
Dec 12 '15
@Corvus
Stupidity is not in the eye of the beholder. Have you never said to yourself, "Man, that was a stupid thing I did?"
I am going to go out in a limb here and assume you find yourself reasonably intelligent. Would it make sense for me to say your intelligence is based on my subjective values holdings?
Is your intelligence based on how I behold you?
Stupidity is not in the eye of the beholder. Have you never said to yourself, "Man, that was a stupid thing I did?"
I am going to go out in a limb here and assume you find yourself reasonably intelligent. Would it make sense for me to say your intelligence is based on my subjective values holdings?
Is your intelligence based on how I behold you?
Member ShadowLover
Dec 12 '15
Just for good measure - the dictionary meaning...
stupidity - behaviour that shows a lack of good sense or judgement.
-the quality of being stupid or unintelligent.
@Padowan. I'm glad you are learning to trust your instincts. :) I think they are like other things in that the more you use them, the stronger they get. I think growing up in relative isolation with animals helped me - monkey see, monkey do. But even so, having good instincts and trusting them doesn't mean I haven't at times overridden them which I would define as stupidity.
stupidity - behaviour that shows a lack of good sense or judgement.
-the quality of being stupid or unintelligent.
@Padowan. I'm glad you are learning to trust your instincts. :) I think they are like other things in that the more you use them, the stronger they get. I think growing up in relative isolation with animals helped me - monkey see, monkey do. But even so, having good instincts and trusting them doesn't mean I haven't at times overridden them which I would define as stupidity.
