The Need to Believe - Zach Black | Forum

Another point: Is it as simple as needing to believe something? I think that some dogmatic religious folk have to prop up their core beliefs, or else their paradigm will come crashing down because the central pillar's been taken out. I'm probably agreeing with you. 

Few assessments of time value are unanimous. For most Satanists (esp. granted their general Christian background) religious of other types have little to offer. I am an obvious, unusual, exception to this. Unlike some Satanists who are superior and know more than those whom they judge as weak-minded, i have done my best to understand religion, its adherents, techniques, ideologies and practices.

It is pragmatically advantageous to lock up the mind in belief so as to commence to practice devotional worship. Inability to shake a negative view of a process or phenomenon half-understood is not admirable to admit. It is accurate to state that a number of people embrace religious doctrines out of fear (esp. of death, which is the case for many who are part of Christianity, with which Satanists are familiar). However, not all do so, and some who do not are not arrogant culture destroyers. Some of these have none of the prejudices or concerns which are, in the above, espoused as fault.

The disappearance of this foundation of belief would be like removing the altar table atop which ceremonials are conducted. To criticize those who maintain the altar simply because it would inconvenience them, or make it more difficult to continue their practice, is somewhat unfair, especially if they aren't the ones condemning you or trying to burn you for your horrible ways. Stripping these people of their beliefs would not necessarily result in anxiety and horror, just sadness and disappointment.

Suppositions that intellect and intelligence are sacrosanct, and represent the most important aspect of religion, are misplaced and disputed. We cannot trust the scientist with his beakers and lab coat attempting to explain the vectors of religion and their predictabilities and values. Offered up alternative preferred beliefs suffused in agnosticism or atheism don't explain away how or why anyone cannot refrain from belief, it just installs more (and opposite) beliefs than convention. It is completely expectable that someone will not wish to accept ideologies completely at odds with what they have been inculcated.

Neither is the need to believe universal (it situates interior to certain circles of people and cults or their former members, primarily), nor does it always play along the same lines of idea. Exploration of world culture and the diversity which exists can disabuse one of this erroneous conclusion.

Philosophically, obsession over beginnings tends to associate with cause and effect, the usual focus of interest for scientific peoples, and in fact modern scientific investigations do seem primarily to have arisen within religious groups (e.g. Mendelian genetics) who are also obsessed over First Cause arguments and the use of extravagant gods as mental stop-gaps to these obsessions.

Repeatedly arguing with people who aren't cooperative or who are trying to find a way to lock down their minds with their preferred dogma is not likely going to result in understanding them or their motivations or techniques. Trying, futilely, to become persuaded differently or convert them from their way of thinking is surely a waste of time. While it is possible that little more than their refusal to entertain other ways of thinking may be achieved by such an argumentative challenge, they may in fact use that as an opportunity to proceed to religious techniques prefaced by their lack of skeptical scrutiny.

It is my impression that people construct their religious ideologies in different ways, and they may or may not rest their faith upon some central pillar, one which may be extractable, replaceable, or completely absent. Having one that you prefer as a substitute does not make either option (belief or refraining from belief altogether) the more rational choice.

- Grand Mufti of Satanism

Quote from Moloch666 Seen through my eyes, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are not religions, but tools made ​​from an elite to brainwashed people. Peoples blind faith gives them power.

"The fanatic is perpetually incomplete and insecure. He cannot generate self-assurance out of his individual resources—out of his rejected self—but finds it only by clinging passionately to whatever support he happens to embrace. This passionate attachment is the essence of his blind devotion and religiosity, and he sees in it the source of all virtue and strength. Though his single-minded dedication is a holding on for dear life, he easily sees himself as the supporter and defender of the holy cause to which he clings. And he is ready to sacrifice his life to demonstrate to himself and others that such indeed is his role. He sacrifices his life to prove his worth.

 It goes without saying that the fanatic is convinced that the causehe holds on to is monolithic and eternal—a rock of ages. Still, his sense of security is derived from his passionate attachment and not from the excellence of his cause. The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness and holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold on to. Often, indeed, it is his need for passionate attachment which turns every cause he embraces into a holy cause.

The fanatic cannot be weaned away from his cause by an appeal to his reason or moral sense. He fears compromise and cannot be persuaded to qualify the certitude and righteousness of his holy cause. But he finds no difficulty in swinging suddenly and wildly from one holy cause to another. He cannot be convinced but only converted. His passionate attachment is more vital than the quality of the cause to which he is attached."

"When it comes to faith, how is any one different from the other if it is accepted without question or skepticism? "

There's faith and believing in yourself. 

I'm too busy being myself -- the herd be damned. :)

No, I have no delusions that logic and reason are as ridiculous as religious faith, but it seems to me the rational Man has taken his own creation (logic and reason) and elevated it to this pedestal. We assume it is how the universe actually works.

There's a great argument I read about this from Richard Dawkins. Basically, the idea is that, no matter what we see, smell, touch or feel, the end result of how we perceive evidence of our universe is always the same: The firing of neurons in our brain.

If you were to apply logic and reason to the above, you'd see that logic and reason are severely limited in its ability to provide accurate evidence for the workings of the universe.

But that's just me rambling way too early in the morning.

Quote from FraterLuciferi Religion is not based on faith but mythological characters that forms the basis of different philosophical and ideological beliefs. Religion is like a tree that grows with many different branches and will still grow with different branches. There is no reason to bash other religions but there is a reason to discuss in a way that leads to co-existence. I believe knowlede and understandings of context is the important key to co-existence. Christians will always consider Satanists to the evil extended arm because of their dualistic worldview but if they can learn to realise the ego through Christ's teachings, then they will develop a strong peaceful mind with no need to preach. There is no need to hate Christians or other dualists for their beliefs because it's seen from their ideological and philosophical worldview. Also, Satanists who spend their time on hating Christians is to me considered to be reverse Christians more as they are not liberated from their Christian background.

Here is where we agree. 

 "Satanists who spend their time on hating Christians is to me considered to be reverse Christians more as they are not liberated from their Christian background."

This is what I've been implying, that is implicitly saying from the start.

Quote from Shawn Want to start a new thread for this?