Hail Jasmin Elric
"I would even go so far as to say the concept of altruism is the antithesis of self-preservation"
I would disagree completely with this, as by being kind to your neighbours may save your life or your property. This idea comes from helping non DNA relatives in a time of need. Then by reciprocation if you have a need they will help you. I must admit this stategy worked well when communities were smallish however in 21st century life it may have less significance. Needless to say I watched a survivalist TV programme that suggested this approach would improve your chances of survival if modern society broke down. I guess its about community and survival chances. If I am nice to my neighbours in a big city (which I am at a superficial level) then if my house is cased they may be more likely to call the police. If society breaks down then my first objective is to ensure my niece is safe because she is very bright and from a family of scientists. Do you see how altruism can be selfish? and if this strategy worked can you see how it might become hardwired in our brains which Ken Tabor experience shows by his almost automatic reaction?
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Altruism | Forum
JasinElric
Feb 9 '15
nikey69,
Kindness does exist, but kindness and altruism are not synonymous, and I think that's where a lot of confusion lies. Kindness can very much be utilized as a means for self-preservation.
Altruism is defined as 100% selflessness. No matter what human attribute we throw around, none of them demonstrate the existence of altruism; be it kindness, love, empathy, compassion, pity, etc.
My personal take on altruism is that it's an ideal people throw around to overplay their kindness, love, empathy, etc.
Chapter Head Kenneth Tabor
Feb 11 '15
I'm not saying all of this to fight with you. I wouldn't waste my time on such meaningless shit. I'm saying this because it's important to understand, and I do think you have the potential to grasp this. Call it my faith in you, lol.
I understand. I just disagree and have already stated why, based on my personal experiences.
The Forum post is edited by Kenneth Tabor Feb 11 '15
JasinElric
Mar 22 '15
bc0203,
If you're arguing a definition by Merriam Webster, yes, you are correct, but we're not arguing the definition, we're arguing the manifestation, the general existence of a purely selfless act. I'm sorry, but that shit cannot be demonstrated, I'm a bit past the point of semantics, as I suspect many here are.
We can look up the definition of Communism, National Socialism, Feminism, etc. and find very different manifestations in the real world than what Merriam Webster promised those terms entailed. I'm not saying the dictionary definition of Altruism has no purpose, but in this particular context it's rather irrelevant.
nith
Mar 23 '15
@JasinElric
I would say that a visual application of a purely selfless act can be demonstrated (to many). The point is that many people don't look past the obvious actions, so in their reality it can exist.
One of my favourite statements of late is;
The less I care, the more easy it is to be polite.
The more polite I am, the more people think I care.
So I can invest an action that on the surface may look selfless but in fact I am sowing seeds. Altruism is a simple tool set with a vast amount of applications as long as the user does not believe the story they are selling. Much like any magic trick.
Cyrus
Jun 8 '17
Bumping this older thread. I'm a do-gooder, as a couple of haters here have taken care to point out. I hold that my own personal safety, well-being, and happiness is -in the larger/longer view- dependent on the safety, well-being, and happiness of my neighbors, my society and country, and eventually all of humanity; so therefore it is an act of self preservation to help others. To support that claim I'd point out that if I want clean air to breathe,
the air must be clean in general for everyone around me. If I want to
not be shot and robbed, the socioeconomic situation must be stable and
somewhat equitable for everyone around me. If I want to enjoy my
freedoms without being arrested or tormented for them, that has to be
the situation for people in general around me.
I further agree with the claim earlier in the thread that acting for the benefit of others can also be acting for my own pleasure-center benefit (warm fuzzy feeling)--and it probably IS that, rather than technically pure altruism. I also agree with the previous post that "selfless" acts can often be seeds planted for later sowing.
To the extent then that Satanism calls for dedication to self preservation, self interest, and pleasure, I assert that "doing good" and caring about others can be entirely compatible with Satanism.
I further agree with the claim earlier in the thread that acting for the benefit of others can also be acting for my own pleasure-center benefit (warm fuzzy feeling)--and it probably IS that, rather than technically pure altruism. I also agree with the previous post that "selfless" acts can often be seeds planted for later sowing.
To the extent then that Satanism calls for dedication to self preservation, self interest, and pleasure, I assert that "doing good" and caring about others can be entirely compatible with Satanism.
