Serve No Abstractions | Forum

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Wolfie
Wolfie May 24 '21
I wrote this paragraph a while ago and thought I'd share it.


One of my favorite things about a badger, say, or a squirrel, or a fox, is that none of them thinks anything is more important than itself, except maybe, for a brief time, its offspring. Yet society teaches us there are abstractions more important than us, or even than our own children. Maybe it’s a country, or a church, or a company, or the human race, or the white race, or Mother Nature, or virtue, or social justice. Whatever it is, no badger, otter, or racoon would ever place that thing above itself or its young offspring. I have to say, on this question, I side with the woodland beasts.


Cornelius Coburn
Cornelius Coburn May 24 '21

I have entertained similar concepts from time to time. I resolve it to existing as part of a structured system. You may exist alongside the woodland beasts if you choose(also state regulated to some degree, depending) and perhaps may enjoy more freedoms while at the same time sacrificing the convenience of a highly structured system.


So as part of a system the individual entity is obviously not the only consideration as the integrity of the greater must be maintained with its' rules and regulations.


Systems may have their excess but it is what it is and given my preferred lifestyle at this stage of the game I choose the system and its' accommodation over unbounded freedoms.


Of course there is also the tempering of the freedoms with respect to the rules within it which can be a bit sketchy at times.

Wolfie
Wolfie May 24 '21
Cornelius, placing self above abstractions is different from being an anarchist or a Luddite. When I obey the law, and when I engage with the technologies and infrastructure of civilization and comply with their requirements, I'm doing this out of self-interest. I like, want, and benefit from the kind of life that being law-abiding and system-compliant makes possible. 


However, if I didn't like, want, or benefit from the kind of life that being law-abiding and system-compliant makes possible, I would immediately start looking for alternatives, and if I found any, I would choose from among them and then reset my lifestyle accordingly.


I don't obey the law because the law is a cosmic good. I don't comply with the systems of technology and infrastructure because these systems are a cosmic good. I obey and comply because these things have utility in my life. They bring me pleasure, security, freedom, and capability. I value them because I value myself. But I do value them.

  


Anna
Anna May 24 '21
I wonder if people are not somehow evolutionarily wired to serve the bigger whole, like the country, the race or humanity. From the greater perspective (I don't want to use "nature's point of view" because that would look weird), the life of an individual doesn't matter. It's not as important as the survival and progress of the whole species or various tribes. I would view modern societies as more evolved and complex forms of ant colonies rather than packs of woodland beasts. What you wrote would be a bit problematic in the case of an ant. The colony here is above an individual although the self-interest is present, albeit not consciously realized. 
Wolfie
Wolfie May 24 '21
Anna, I can begin to answer your comment by observing that there are people who clearly aren't wired to serve the bigger whole. I, for example, am not, and based on what I've seen of your writings, you also are not.


I spent my early years in self-deceit. I thought I was wired to serve the bigger whole, but I really wasn't.


Humans aren't ants. However, humans are capable of almost unlimited self-deceit. Every animal's experience of reality is a construct of  the brain, but a human's brain is more powerful than any other animal's. Our constructs can be amazingly abstract. We can even build constructs more suited for ants than for humans.

 
My gradual Satanic awakening has been the continual dismantling of the construct I built in my early years. What I built had some decidedly ant-like characteristics. By dismantling it, I've become less and less of a hive-dwelling insect and more of a human being.  

As a human, I give and I take. The reason I give is so I can take. If I could take without giving, I would.


Cornelius Coburn
Cornelius Coburn May 25 '21
I don't believe this is anything new anyway nor any sort of revelation or peculiar to Satanism. The majority only give a fuck about themselves although most likely won't admit it because the Freudian ego would filter it as being inappropriate.
Wolfie
Wolfie May 25 '21
Cornelius, I think you mean Superego rather than Ego, but aside from that, I agree with you. The Superego is a part of the construct we build in our childhood years. Dismantling the construct will always include dismantling the Superego. What remains will be Id and Ego.


Satanism's contribution is that it draws attention to the construct and encourages us to dismantle it.


Satan is Id and Ego putting Superego to death in defiance of Superego's social supports.




Cornelius Coburn
Cornelius Coburn May 25 '21
I understood the Id was the true nature with the ego(mediator) as the filter with the superego being the end result that everyone sees.


So with an individual acting true to themselves the Id and the superego would be equal which apparently renders the filtering unnecessary.

Cornelius Coburn
Cornelius Coburn May 25 '21
I suppose it's plausible to not require any mediation although extremely rare I would say. An individual might be wholeheartedly good natured or might just say fuck society and what people think, not likely.


It's mostly about conformance with society and presenting oneself accordingly.

Baphomets Mod
Baphomets May 25 '21
...and sometimes, to deal with being torn between being law abiding or a lawless criminal, you can have multiple personalities. Just like the personas on this network - socks included.
Wolfie
Wolfie May 25 '21
Id is the pleasure principle, Ego is the reality principle, and Superego is the morality principle. Freud saw the Ego as the mediator between the Id and the Superego, and between the Id and reality.


I use the same concepts but a little differently. I see Superego (the morality principle) as something to be dismantled. I also see Id and Ego as needing to be in balance. Pleasure needs to sometimes give way to reality, but reality sometimes needs to give way (be transformed) in service to pleasure.


Freud's Three:


Id is the pleasure principle.

Ego is the reality principle.

Superego is the morality principle.


Wolfie’s Three:

 

Satan is Id and Ego putting Superego to death in defiance of Superego’s social supports.

 

Satan is Id and Ego working out a mutually satisfactory balance of power.

 

Satan is affirmation of life and denial of all that is antilife or meta-life.



The Forum post is edited by Wolfie May 25 '21
Cornelius Coburn
Cornelius Coburn May 25 '21
Quote from Baphomets ...and sometimes, to deal with being torn between being law abiding or a lawless criminal, you can have multiple personalities. Just like the personas on this network - socks included.
That's absolutely right your infinite exquisiteness. I have my own boundaries which at times may override the societal ones which boils down to me experiencing creation the way I see fit, but again, overstepping while tempering these constraints to a rational compromise.
Wolfie
Wolfie May 30 '21
Cornelius, it's possible to serve abstractions that society abhors. I could, for example, serve the principle of cruelty. I could convince myself that this principle has some cosmic significance and anything I do to further its dominion has cosmic worth.


I reject categorically any service to any abstraction, regardless whether society would applaud or abhor my service. My passions, and my passions alone, drive me, as mediated by the constraints of reality.

 

Wolfie
Wolfie May 30 '21
Cornelius, it's possible to serve abstractions that society abhors. I could, for example, serve the principle of cruelty. I could convince myself that this principle has some cosmic significance and anything I do to further its dominion has cosmic worth.


I reject categorically any service to any abstraction, regardless whether society would applaud or abhor my service. My passions, and my passions alone, drive me, as mediated by the constraints of reality.

 

Cornelius Coburn
Cornelius Coburn May 30 '21

Since no thing defines its' own creation it cannot be held responsible for its' nature, and then of course there are choices which may or may not align with this 'true nature'.


I don't believe there's any consequence for our actions other than societal. The powers that be defined us, so to condemn that would be to condemn itself.


I was fairly evil as a teenager although I have evolved beyond that without being influenced by any external factors.


There may be no reward for this less destructive path I've arrived, but still, it is what it is. 

talisman
talisman May 30 '21
This is very interesting. Intuitive and instinctive. But in fact abstractions serve as a means of communication. If I get it right. 
Wolfie
Wolfie May 30 '21
Cornelius, all I would add is this: Society can be either an external factor or an internal one. As an external factor, it's a part of objective reality, and its implications are managed by the reality principle (Ego). By contrast, society as an internal factor is a function of our childhood indoctrination, and its implications are managed by the morality principle (Superego).


I reject the morality principle, reject my childhood indoctrination, and reject society as an internal factor.


Since I'm not insane, I don't reject the reality principle, don't reject objective reality, and don't reject the need to adapt to society as an external factor.


I don't allow my passions to be constrained by anything except objective reality.

 


talisman
talisman May 30 '21
Usually the doctor does this. It's not completely useless to trichotomize your personality, then divide it again. It's a means of knowing ourselves.  Contradiction should be  a human right. You say you're not insane and I believe you. What I get from you is that you are a pretty reasonable and intelligent person.
Satanist since more than a decade

Quote from Wolfie I wrote this paragraph a while ago and thought I'd share it.


One of my favorite things about a badger, say, or a squirrel, or a fox, is that none of them thinks anything is more important than itself, except maybe, for a brief time, its offspring. Yet society teaches us there are abstractions more important than us, or even than our own children. Maybe it’s a country, or a church, or a company, or the human race, or the white race, or Mother Nature, or virtue, or social justice. Whatever it is, no badger, otter, or racoon would ever place that thing above itself or its young offspring. I have to say, on this question, I side with the woodland beasts.


The greater picture is seldom apprehended, understood or seen. 
Generally because it is being made up on the fly. 


The smallest ant and the great complex divine both share a universal trait, the own point of view. 


In both instances is the question "to what end"? 
And there is no universal answer to it. 

Wolfie
Wolfie May 31 '21
Satanist since more than a decade,


I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. I would just dispute the existence of a "great complex divine."


Meanwhile, if the smallest ant were able to ask me the question, "to what end?" - I would answer, "to your greatest gratification as constrained by reality." But the ant already knows that, so it wouldn't ask the question, even if it could. In fact, as it turns out, it was I who asked the ant, and the spider and the bee, and all the wild denizens of the woodland, quite some time ago. They answered me not with words but with actions. I observed them and I learned.


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