I understand what your saying about a metaphorical worship of a god, I just disagree on what to label that. in my opinion it makes no sense to prescribe the word religion to something when it is used in an atheistic point of view as metaphorical beings. I would only consider religion the literal worship of a literal god, like Christians and Muslims, to me the moment somebody does not actually believe in a literal god I find no reason to label it religion. I'm not sure if this is a cultural differences but here this is the general definition of religion here. even Laveyan Satanist belonging to the church do not consider themselves a actual religion here, the mAjority describe the church as atheist in Halloween costumes with some morals attached.Why wouldn't it make sense to define religion as the belief in and worship of God's, every major religion would fit into it.
Because the majority only accepts the theistic definition of gods. If we look at gods from an atheistic point of view then the gods can be metaphorical description of the nature and man. That's how Church of Satan consider them, so CoS is therefore by definition an atheistic religion. If you consider atheistic religion to be oxymoron then Church of Satan is oxymoron.
Nevertheless, since the majority of this discussion has been some what off topic I would like to ask you a question, what does theistic satanism contain?
No offence but you don't read fully what I'm writing... The only thing theistic Satanists shares is they are theists and the only thing atheistic Satanists shares is they are atheists. Just because Satan rejected the authority of a god above himself does not mean he rejected the existences of gods. That's why there can't be a bible nor an document to define the standard beliefs of Satanism because it would go against the nature of the character of Satan.
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Is Abortion anti satanic? | Forum
AntonDahmer
Dec 8 '16
AntonDahmer
Dec 8 '16
I understand that theistic Satanist, only have that in common but for example you have called yourself one so where does that come from? is your theism based on ancient myths?Why wouldn't it make sense to define religion as the belief in and worship of God's, every major religion would fit into it.
Because the majority only accepts the theistic definition of gods. If we look at gods from an atheistic point of view then the gods can be metaphorical description of the nature and man. That's how Church of Satan consider them, so CoS is therefore by definition an atheistic religion. If you consider atheistic religion to be oxymoron then Church of Satan is oxymoron.
Nevertheless, since the majority of this discussion has been some what off topic I would like to ask you a question, what does theistic satanism contain?
No offence but you don't read fully what I'm writing... The only thing theistic Satanists shares is they are theists and the only thing atheistic Satanists shares is they are atheists. Just because Satan rejected the authority of a god above himself does not mean he rejected the existences of gods. That's why there can't be a bible nor an document to define the standard beliefs of Satanism because it would go against the nature of the character of Satan.
AntonDahmer
Dec 8 '16
Because that's the way it's used here, I would be open to evolving my understanding of this term. in general something like Christianity is a religion, so are Muslims, Buddhist here are more often describe as secularist with a Philosophy attached, so are atheistic Satanist. in the United States I think over 80% of people would consider the term atheistic religion a oxymoron, if that's the way you use it in your country then it seems there a large misunderstanding between us. to give you an example here in the US we had the ten commandments posted on the grounds of the Oklahoma state capital so a large statue of a satanic goat was supposed to be place next to it on the grounds of freedom of religion, they argued if Christians could have their religious monument then so could these atheistic Satanist. however if you talk to the Satanist supporting it they do so in more of a trolling manner, and a ways to get the ten commandments down, the mAjority of Satanist supporting that don't actual consider themselves a religion.
I would only consider religion the literal worship of a literal god, like Christians and Muslims,
Why?
AntonDahmer
Dec 8 '16
I think this is a better way of putting it, what you describe as secular Christians is called cultural Christians here. Someone who doesn't literally worship Jesus as a literal god but views the bible as important mythology that can be learned from and also feels that certain morality can be obtained through the metaphorical understanding of Christianity, this is termed cultural Christian because secular christian is usually used as a joke (for a really bad Christian) or as a deliberate oxymoron.
Because that's the way it's used here, I would be open to evolving my understanding of this term. in general something like Christianity is a religion, so are Muslims, Buddhist here are more often describe as secularist with a Philosophy attached, so are atheistic Satanist. in the United States I think over 80% of people would consider the term atheistic religion a oxymoron, if that's the way you use it in your country then it seems there a large misunderstanding between us. to give you an example here in the US we had the ten commandments posted on the grounds of the Oklahoma state capital so a large statue of a satanic goat was supposed to be place next to it on the grounds of freedom of religion, they argued if Christians could have their religious monument then so could these atheistic Satanist. however if you talk to the Satanist supporting it they do so in more of a trolling manner, and a ways to get the ten commandments down, the mAjority of Satanist supporting that don't actual consider themselves a religion.
I would only consider religion the literal worship of a literal god, like Christians and Muslims,
Why?
AntonDahmer
Dec 8 '16
All of them, for example jesus, Allah, zues or osiris?
I understand that theistic Satanist, only have that in common but for example you have called yourself one so where does that come from? is your theism based on ancient myths?
I acknowledge the divine because I work with it in the practice of ritual magick. I don't worship any gods and I instead invokes and treats them equality.
AntonDahmer
Dec 8 '16
The meaning of words evolve, that's what I'm saying the majority of people don't accept that anymore and therefore are not going to feel the need to use it.
Because that's the way it's used here, I would be open to evolving my understanding of this term. in general something like Christianity is a religion, so are Muslims, Buddhist here are more often describe as secularist with a Philosophy attached, so are atheistic Satanist. in the United States I think over 80% of people would consider the term atheistic religion a oxymoron, if that's the way you use it in your country then it seems there a large misunderstanding between us. to give you an example here in the US we had the ten commandments posted on the grounds of the Oklahoma state capital so a large statue of a satanic goat was supposed to be place next to it on the grounds of freedom of religion, they argued if Christians could have their religious monument then so could these atheistic Satanist. however if you talk to the Satanist supporting it they do so in more of a trolling manner, and a ways to get the ten commandments down, the mAjority of Satanist supporting that don't actual consider themselves a religion.
The term religion origins in latine and means "binding together". One mythological character whatever it's Satan, Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Thor etc can bind a whole group of social movements together with shared symbolism.
AntonDahmer
Dec 8 '16
Where are they known as the four crown Prince of hell, where did this originate from?
All of them, for example jesus, Allah, zues or osiris?
No, the only gods are invokes are my personal pantheon who are Satan, Lucifer, Belial and Leviathan also known as the four crown princes of hell.
AntonDahmer
Dec 8 '16
That's exactly the point I'm making, satanism in its whole is not one shared anything. Even your last point about sharing the character of satan which binds them together, all Satanist don't even describe the character of satan the same way.
The meaning of words evolve, that's what I'm saying the majority of people don't accept that anymore and therefore are not going to feel the need to use it.
But there are no other terms you can use...Satanism is not a philosophy because Satanists don't have a shared philosophy.
Satanism is not an ideology because Satanists have not a shared ideology.
Satanism is not a practice because Satanists don't have a shared practice.
Satanism is a religion because Satanists shares the character of Satan that binds them together with shared symbolism.
AntonDahmer
Dec 8 '16
So you base your theism partly off of western occultism and the satanic bible?
Where are they known as the four crown Prince of hell, where did this originate from?
From western occultism and the satanic bible.
Ra
Dec 12 '16
I would really be interested in hearing what you guys think about whether or not abortion is able to coexist with a LaVeyan satanism mindset. In particular I'm referring to the eleven satanic rules of the earth number nine, "do not harm little children". What do you guys think of this, would you consider a fetus "little children", if not would the amount time left before the estimated birth have any effect? This is something I've been wondering about myself, for example would the fetus at 8 months be considered "little children" meaning that late term abortions would be in defiance of this rule?
I think it depends when you believe life begins at. I'm of the opinion that if abortion is murder then a blowjob must be cannibalism. As for an abortion occurring at 8 months its pretty much unheard of, 24 weeks is usually the cutting off point, in a lot of countries its earlier.
From what I've gathered Satanists seem to be intelligent, logical people. Women have suffered enough at the hands of christian oppression I'm pretty sure most satanists would want to stand in solidarity with them.
AntonDahmer
Dec 13 '16
Makes sense, to be a little more clear I brought this up because I've had many people tell me they believe that women should be able to have abortions all throughout the pregnancy, including ones in the 8th and 9th month. This seems to be a response to trump winning, I personally don't care either way but I have a few friends that are very vocal on their support all the way up to even the week expected.
I would really be interested in hearing what you guys think about whether or not abortion is able to coexist with a LaVeyan satanism mindset. In particular I'm referring to the eleven satanic rules of the earth number nine, "do not harm little children". What do you guys think of this, would you consider a fetus "little children", if not would the amount time left before the estimated birth have any effect? This is something I've been wondering about myself, for example would the fetus at 8 months be considered "little children" meaning that late term abortions would be in defiance of this rule?
I think it depends when you believe life begins at. I'm of the opinion that if abortion is murder then a blowjob must be cannibalism. As for an abortion occurring at 8 months its pretty much unheard of, 24 weeks is usually the cutting off point, in a lot of countries its earlier.
From what I've gathered Satanists seem to be intelligent, logical people. Women have suffered enough at the hands of christian oppression I'm pretty sure most satanists would want to stand in solidarity with them.
Ra
Dec 13 '16
An abortion that late would be very rare, usually the fetus has died inside the mother. The pro-lifers would have you believe women are running about having abortions for the craic when in reality its one of the hardest decisions anyone could ever make. I'm pretty sure if shes in the 9th month of pregnancy shes made up her mind.
I'm from Ireland and unfortunately the church still wields a lot of power over here and women are dying because of it. I wish people would realise she doesn't need their opinion, she needs their support.
I'm from Ireland and unfortunately the church still wields a lot of power over here and women are dying because of it. I wish people would realise she doesn't need their opinion, she needs their support.
